I am very pleased to announce that we have a new contributing author, who will be doing a column called “Someone You Should Know” To properly do the column, we needed someone who has his finger on the pulse of the paranormal community, who would know who the people are that deserve to be heard, and finding someone like that wouldn’t be easy.. but he came to us! Perfect!
Beginning in this issue I am pleased to present our newest writer, Tom Danhieser, Senior Producer of the hit radio show dealing with the paranormal as well as other mysterious things, Coast to Coast AM starring George Noory. Welcome Tom!
Other great things are happening for us as well, the main one being the new Friday the 13th video game. Kane Hodder resumes the character of Jason Voorhees, for those who might not know this Kane has played him in four different films, beginning with Friday the 13th Part 7. I was lucky enough to be the Assistant Stunt Coordinator , and if you like action and horror, boy, is this the game for you! As many of you are aware Kane gets a little rambunctious when he is doing a project, as he totally gets into being that character, which really makes for a terrifying performance, and if you happen to be a victim, you will have bruises to show your grandchildren. It’s not one way either.. if you go after him in a fight scene you better not go easy, because Kane expects to take as well as dish it out. As for me, I was hit on the head with a plastic bucket, punched in the jaw, kicked in the stomach, and later in the back.. AND THAT WASN”T EVEN DURING FILMING!
Rick and Kane working on the Friday the 13th video game, Kane wearing the Motion Capture suit.
John Schnieder and RA Mihailoff speaking about Smothered, a movie starring Kane, RA, and a ton of other horror icons.
Several years ago, Kane Hodder, RA Mihailoff and I were guests on the TV show Ghost Adventures, and I am glad to say we are still friends with all the guys, so when I heard that Nick was doing a new show called Paranormal Lockdown I knew I had to interview him. He agreed, and we set up a time for him to call me. He’s pretty busy with his new show!
Rick: Is there anything you want me to ask you about your new show?
Do you think this new format might open up something new in the paranormal field?
Nick: I’m pretty open minded, you know me, you’ve known me for a long time, I’m pretty straight forward, and honest, and honestly, I’m really excited about this show, not just because It’s me doing a show, more or less because I’m super passionate about the subject matter and I’ve been wanting to do this for so long, and I just feel like this is the future of what paranormal should be conducted as. We’re just in a weird period of life where there are so many paranormal shows, there is so much paranormal happening that I think sometimes you need to step outside the box a little bit and revolutionize it, so I’m really excited about it.
Rick: I agree. Things have become so formula, that thinking outside the box is a great idea.
Nick: Honestly, I’ve gone through life, through so many different experiences that there comes a point where you start theorizing, you start thinking deep, what is death, what is next and you see some family members that pass on, aunts and uncles that pass that you are really close to, and you start questioning things. I think of what has happened to me throughout my last couple of years, at locations where we are going in just wild as youngsters looking for experiences, but once you start having experiences and you grow a little bit wiser and older, when you start questioning a little bit more, how is that possible, you try to explain things a little bit and put some logical explanation behind it. So I’m kind of at that point in my life where I want to discover something new within in the paranormal field, and now we label stuff as people, as the human race, stuff that’s unknown because we don’t understand it yet, but we haven’t actually categorized it as a name. We haven’t put a definitive name on something we discovered, kind of like scientists are discovering new things with the universe, landing on comets and going to Pluto, and crazy stuff like that, so I want to discover something new in the paranormal field that would revolutionize the way we look at things in our life before I pass on, in this world. I want to be that guy who has that discovery.
Rick: I think we all want that, everybody in the paranormal. You’ve always sounded more passionate about it, more realistic about the whole deal. I’m the same way, I’m not really going into a place to get scared, I want to get something that I can show somebody and say “ there it is”, so there is no question what they are looking at..
Nick: Exactly, I mean, here’s the thing, no matter who you are, what your background is, the human nature of your senses as a human being, you’re going to get startled, regardless, some people are getting more startled than others, obviously, and a lot of that plays into it. You are going into an extremely haunted location, now the locations we are going to for Paranormal Lockdown are researched heavily so they are extremely haunted, before we even get there. So I’m not just going to a location saying oh we heard all these reported legends and mysteries and these paranormal investigators that had been there, and they are saying we saw shadow figures, and they saw this and that and then that’s the typical norm of how these shows have become. With me, for Paranormal Lockdown, I’m going in and I’m researching, like this one location I’ve been researching for fifteen years, Franklin Castle in
Cleveland, we finally convinced the owner after long conversations to allow us to investigate it for three days straight which is the concept of our show Paranormal Lockdown so, the concept is OK. I’ve been in locations from overnight, 7 hours, 12 hours, dusk ‘til dawn, at a length, that’s the longest I’ve been at a location sometimes, so usually typically when you are investigating things get intense sometimes at really haunted locations, and you don’t have time to try and take that even further so I’m at the period of my life where I’ve been doing this so long, ten years now, professionally, I want to take it further. What is the breaking point? What mentally, physically, emotionally, just everything all kind of put together and is it possible if we stay at these locations longer where you saw an apparition, or you saw this figure, would that appear where we can possibly capture on our high tech equipment that we have, that we are evolving right now for the future. We’re using state of the art cameras that are actually just ground breaking I feel, they are 6K that can see in all dynamics of light, and were the only ones that have them right now besides the military, so I feel that the way we are conducting it, the way we are doing it, passionately, I am super involved in it, every aspect of Paranormal Lockdown from nuts to bolts. I am living it, breathing it, sleeping it, every single day that I wake up, even when I’m not at the location that’s all I’m doing in my life, because I’m more on a quest, I’m on this kind of soul seeking, not just for the experiences, not just for the rush anymore, not just for hey, I captured this voice we can go home now, or this place is haunted, this place isn’t haunted, it’s let’s discover something that is groundbreaking , something that is new, something that we haven’t actually found yet, that we can say wow, maybe this why we’re seeing these figures, or this is a solid apparition or a solid ghost that we label as a ghost that now we can say here we are, we captured this. Let’s take it a step further, enough of this debunking, improving, throwing it in people’s faces, let’s work as a team as one united as the human race to try to discover something new, you know what I mean Rick?
Rick: Oh yeah.
Nick: That’s the point I’m at in my life right now.
Nick Groff Katrina Weidman
Rick: You know what I would like to see on your show, I would love to see that when you went in there on the first day all sorts of things start happening, above and beyond what we’re used to seeing, the kind of things that would make most want to leave, it would be very interesting to see you guys have to stay through that..
Nick: That’s our show, that’s exactly what we’re doing, we’re staying there for three days straight, pretty much 72 hours straight, picture 26 hours in, you’re there day one, and this is exactly how it’s happening in some of the experiences we’ve already gone through in some of the locations and suddenly you have these experiences, you hear the voices, you hear the noises, right? As a logical thinker, as you and I are, we try to figure it out, but you can’t figure it out. And then you have some more experiences. It’s weird, because I feel that when you get into day two, you start becoming a little bit more a part of the environment and the spirits or whoever is there start to realize they can communicate with you and it becomes more aware, and you become more alert, and more things start happening, which is wild. Now where it gets really scary at some of these locations a that are more negative and when we actually have to go to sleep for about two or three hours or whatever it is because eventually your mind and your body shut down, you have to lay down, or else your body will just give up. So about twenty six hours in there becomes a point where we have put our cot or sleeping bag out, I usually will pick an extremely haunted spot, because it’s supposed to be haunted, I want to capture, I want to document, I want to experience things, so like I said we can discover something.
So that’s where I become a little nervous is when I become vulnerable, when my eyes shut, my mind kind of stops to hibernate for that second, where you are just lying there.
Rick: That sounds like it would be really interesting.
Nick: Yeah! It’s creepy, its nerve wracking, it’s intense, but the thing is I’m not going anywhere, I’m staying man, I’m staying my ground until it gets like physically crazy.
Rick: Katrina Weidman, your partner on the hunts, is she going to be sleeping at the same time you are?
Nick: Yeah, there will be a point where we will need l to get like two hours sleep, 26 hours in, it’s like 4AM, on day one, night one, so she will go to a separate part of the location in the building, and she’ll stay there, and I’ll go to another part of the building that is reportedly one of the extremely haunted spots and I’ll stay there too. And then if one wakes up before the other, then we’ll grab our camera off the tripod, and I’ll go off and find her, and it’s pretty hilarious sometimes, because I’ll find her and she’ll still be under her sleeping bag, and I’ll be like” hello”, she’ll come up out of her sleeping bag and her eyes are shut, and she’s like” what’s going on?”, and she’ll look at me.. it’s such a surreal experience, it’s super genuine, it’s really how it’s done, we’re living, we’re sleeping, we’re eating at these locations, we don’t leave, sometimes I’m so nervous that I keep my boots on for three days straight, even when I’m sleeping, because I don’t know when I’m going to have to jump up and chase a ghost or a sound or something wakes me up, or something happens. The first time I did that, I took my shoes off on day three when I left the location for good, and my foot was almost white from no blood circulation.
Rick: It sounds great, a lot of new concepts for a show, I think the new elements you’ve added will really make it interesting. Next question: Of all the places you’ve been, is there any place you wouldn’t go back?
Nick: Interesting, I used to say Bobby Mackey’s, but I went back there recently in the beginning of the year, not for Paranormal Lockdown but for the Nick Groff Tour we were doing. For personal reasons I came to the conclusion to never say you’ll never do something ever again, so I’m at that part of my life where I’m never going to say I’m not going to say I don’t want to do that, I’m going to say it’s possible that I could do things that maybe my mind tells me no to do sometimes, but maybe that’s just my crazy personality, you know have such a severe experience, or something like that happens that you want to question it further, and you want to go back and engage it more because of those scenarios. Sometime I think I just get into that mentality.
Rick: You got to remember, I’m the guy they throw off roofs and down stairs for a living, my mind and body tell me all the time I shouldn’t be doing this.
Rick: Next question, if you could go back to anyplace you’ve already been to, where would you most want to go?
Nick: I would love to go back to Linda Vista Hospital, with the experience, the equipment we have now, oh man, being there for three days, wow, that would be an experience.
That experience that I had there when I saw that young ladies’ spirit a few feet in front of my face, to me that was groundbreaking in my part of my life back in 2009, and I keep going back to that, imagine if I could live there and confront her once again and she would show herself and we could document her, to me that be epic, that would be the Holy Grail.
I don’t know, there is something about that location, but you know all the locations we’re doing for Paranormal Lockdown, are all new, locations they’ve been researching for years, these locations are all badass, probably some of the best I’ve ever done. I’m excited about the locations because the evidence we’ve actually captured so far is absolutely amazing, I feel some of the evidence we’ve captured is groundbreaking too, and it’s getting us closer and closer to those questions.
Rick: I’m getting excited, I want to see it!
Nick: I’m excited to show the world, because I’m at the point where it’s going to be something different, it’s going to be really good.
Rick: I ask this to everyone I interview, if you could go back in time to anywhere in history with a video camera, where would you go?
Nick: You know it would be interesting to document the Battle of Gettysburg, just watching the whole battle, it would be sad, it would be really sad to see both sides fighting on American soil. Just seeing how that all came out, and just standing above on tower and watching the whole battle take place.
Rick: I think that would give everybody a lot more perspective than they have now.
Nick: When you walk on the field you just feel it, you feel that emotion, that energy just lingering, you a hundred thousand deaths, whatever the exact, the bloodiest battle that ever took place on American soil, so imagine being there watching it unfold, it would be really gripping, be kind of disgusting and sad, but at the same time it would be interesting to see what would happen when the smoke settles and the war is done, and all the bodies are there, would there be any apparitions still walking around? That’s how I look at things. What would happen with the spiritual energy after the fact while the bodies are still laid out? I’m not talking about now.
Rick: Yeah, exactly..
Nick: There are all the stories of the hauntings, but those are all after the fact.
Rick: I’ve never been there.
Nick: It’s a really cool town, you have to get out to Gettysburg, it’ really, really awesome, definitely one of the places you would like to go if you are interested in ghost hunting.
Rick: Thanks for doing the interview, next time you’re town give me a shout.
Nick: Next time you go to Scotland and you need a partner, let me know.
It’s taken a little longer to get this out due to a redo of the magazine website, but it has given me a chance to see the first two episodes. I really like this show, the format is new and fresh, Katrina Weidman and Nick Groff are excellent together, the new Geo Box is something new and fascinating, and I can’t wait to get my hands on one of them. I heartily recommend it!
Paranormal Lockdown can be found on Destination America, Fridays. Check it out!
Scotland has beckoned to me from afar for all of my life, a calling that I was finally able to respond to, and I know it was a combination of my ancestors being from Scotland, the awesome ghost hunting locations, and just the idea of meeting new people and a new adventure that made me want to go so much. But there was one thing I was totally unprepared for… the Scottish people.
I was working on a movie called Checkpoint in North Carolina,
then had to go to Chicago to work on my mother’s house so I could sell it, then on to Nashville for the Home Show we run. Because of this, I had very little time to plan out where to stay or where to go, so I was really in the dark about a lot of things, and never really had a chance to get excited about my trip being so busy with everything else. Right after the Home Show, I flew to Chicago, spent a week clearing everything out of the house, and cleaning it top to bottom, it is three and a half stories, so it was pretty intense getting it done, and then I flew to Los Angeles, where I had a total of two days to grab everything and head off on the trip I had been waiting years for.
As I landed in Edinburgh and grabbed my bag, I headed up to a man who worked there and asked him where a cab would be. He asked me where I was going, then told me the cab would cost fifty dollars, but if I went out front and grabbed the bus, it was only seven dollars! I jumped on that bus as quick as I could, then realized other than knowing the address of the Travelodge, I had no idea where I was going. I went up front and asked the driver, who told me he would call out to me when it was my turn to get off. After about a half an hour, he called me to the front of the bus, and I could see the hotel in front of me, about a block walk. Perfect! He said hold up mate, it’s a bit tricky to find the entrance to the hotel, you have to go down the side and in through the alley.. It would have taken me quite a while to find it, but $43 dollars ahead of the game, thanks to very helpful people, I found the alley, and as I stood looking at the building I thought this hotel might not be what I was looking for as far as a place to stay, but I was totally wrong. . Without anywhere else to go, I headed in, where I met the desk clerk Alan. I told him I was there for my first real vacation, and he made sure I got a room with a view, and it was magnificent! It was a huge room, and check out the photo of my view!
I was also fortunate to meet Anna, who helped me get a room at another hotel when theirs was full, and Michael who guarded my luggage like a pit bull. Once again, great people, extremely helpful. Alan and I would chat a lot at that front desk, as he would tell me what to see and how to get there, which, seeing as I was right on the main street across from Edinburgh Castle, was very busy with tourists, and you could walk most everywhere, and there was so many interesting things and so much history, you would walk up and down those hills all day and not realize you had probably done close to ten miles.. One thing I noticed walking up those hills, some fairly steep, is that the girls have definitely benefitted from walking all those hills.. hey, I’m single and on vacation, I’m allowed to notice!
One of the things I really wanted to see was Rosslyn Chapel, which was in the DaVinci Code movie, and where many experts believe the Knights Templar hid the Holy Grail. Alan at the front desk of the Travelodge told me where to catch the bus, it was only about 150 yards from the hotel, and it was only three dollars to get to the chapel. It was a double decker bus, so of course I went up top to see the sights, and as I was riding along, once again I realized I didn’t know where to get off. I asked the lady next to me if she knew what stop I should get off at, and she said she would tell me when to head downstairs.
A bit later she said next stop, dang these people are so nice! I went down to the front of the bus and asked the driver how to get to the Chapel as he pulled to a stop.. He chuckled, pointed straight ahead and said “go down that road, and you’ll walk right in the front door”
Yes, I realize Rosslyn Chapel and the city it resides in are spelled differently. Who knew?
After I had exited the bus, I had a nice walk, only a couple hundred yards until I got to the Chapel.. It has a gift shop where you can grab a sandwich or something to drink, as well as a souvenir shop. I paid for my ticket, and headed onto the Chapel grounds. I walked all around the Chapel, I was in no hurry at all, I had wanted to come here for a long, long time, so I was enjoying all I could.. I went into the Chapel, which isn’t as big as I would have thought, but it was awesome! The hand carved wood and stone work was amazing, and a lady walked in, had us sit in the pews, and told us the history of the place. I won’t go into all of it, but one of the things that really caught my interest was a carving in the stone of what was obviously corn. Why is that interesting? I’m glad you asked.. At the time the Chapel was built, no one had yet been to America, the only place corn grows. Told you it was interesting! I went over everything, thinking I might actually be standing in the place where the Holy Grail may have been,
and some scholars think the Ark of the Covenant may have been there as well. Something about the Chapel, its history, the whole surrounding area really felt like home to me, I know I have ancestors from Scotland, but I really liked this place.
If you go to the Chapel the grounds around it are full of cool things, the parts of a castle destroyed by the British, two old time cemeteries,
paths that will take you through the woods, you could spend a week investigating the place.. and I did!
I walked back up the road to catch my bus back to Edinburgh when I saw a small, very charming two story inn. I went in to look around.
The Chapel Cross Guesthouse
The inn was a very old period type, with a desk in the entry for the hotel ,and to the right was a Tea Room. I wandered into it and was transported back to another time. There was a young girl named Beth there behind the counter, maybe 15, and dressed in a long, old time apron. I thought I had walked through a portal, what a great place!
I went to the counter and checked the menu, ordered a sandwich and an iced tea. The girl brought it over, and a lady came out of the kitchen. I was the only customer there, so we all talked while I ate. Once again, the Scottish people are so nice!
It dawned on me that this would be a great place to stay for a few days as I wanted to ghost hunt, and this place had the right look and feel. I asked the lady how much it would be to stay, and was nicely surprised, it was about half what I would have paid for the weekend in Edinburgh, so I told her I would be back the next day, jumped on the bus and went back to the city, spent the night wandering through it, checking out places to ghost hunt.
I chose Edinburgh Castle to visit, man, that place is awesome!
It’s enormous, and everything is pretty much the same from it was first built. OK history buffs, the English burned it down, all except for one room, but the Scots took it back and rebuilt it
I was anxious to see it, because I am supposed to be related to King Malcolm, my last name comes from Malcolm, and I wasn’t disappointed, I found four King Malcolm’s on their Wall of Kings.( I think I should have gotten a discount on my admission)!
Back to the Chapel Cross Guesthouse
The next morning I grabbed my stuff, jumped on the bus, and made my way back to The Chapel Cross Guesthouse. When I got there, I met a lovely lady named Gail, who hooked me up with a nice room with a view of the Rosslyn Inn,
and right outside the hotel is a courtyard that is next to their bar/restaurant, which is a meeting place for the locals ( and tourists).. I had several dinners there, everyone was excellent, as were the people who work there.
I met the owners of The Chapel Cross, Richard and Amy, really nice people who made sure I enjoyed my stay, especially the waffles I had every morning! I had an adorable server named Abigail; you can see her picture wearing one of our Hollywood Ghost Hunter shirts. This place was so comfortable for me, I ended up staying five days all together, and I am going back in June. The Guesthouse, as a matter of fact the entire area is a total gem of a place to kick back and just roam the countryside. I went to Rosslyn Chapel several times, went down to a field where William Wallace of Braveheart fame socked it out with the British, as well as a cave where he used to hide from the British, I’ll talk more about that in this issues Group of the Month.. I can’t wait to get back to the Guesthouse!
A few issues ago, I wrote about wanting to go ghost hunting in Scotland, and if anybody there had any suggestions. I got a lot of great responses, including one from Gary Hugill, who introduced me to another member of the group, Premier Paranormal Tours, his name is Brian Harley, who had some great suggestions on places to hunt around Edinburgh, so we agreed to meet when I got there.
Brian came to the Travelodge where I was staying, we grabbed a bite to eat and set up a game plan. Now, the first thing I noticed is that he was wearing a black trench coat and one of those black hats the bad guy always wear in the spy movies, and gave him a strong resemblance to Boris Badenov of Rocky and Bullwinkle fame. OK, now that I have figured out what I’m going to call him, we set up a hunt at Hailes Castle for the following night.
Brian, AKA Boris came and got me, and he brought along another member of his group, Carol Ann Hosburgh, a really sweet girl who I would come to find out was totally fearless. We headed out to the castle, which wasn’t but about a half hour away, and as we went down this dark curvy road I asked them if we were going to get in trouble wandering around in the dark, he said Scotland is a lot more open when it comes to ghost hunting, so everything would be fine, last thing I want to do on my vacation is to get thrown into the hoosegow! There were a few houses we went by, but when we got to the castle, it sat all alone in this big field, very isolated, very quiet with only the moon for illumination, it was classic! It was eerie moonlight, an abandoned run down castle, exploring time!
We walked about two hundred yards, and as we got close, you could see parts of it had either been destroyed or caved in,
it had been cleaned up, but a fantastic place for my first hunt in Scotland..
A quick tour of the castle showed it to be very large, with several different areas to explore. Choosing the bottom floor, we started our investigation, where we did voice recordings, EMF detectors, and carefully swept the entire room with my night vision camera, but it was very quiet, so we headed up to the room upstairs. As we went through the door, I had a very strong feeling something was on the grounds with us, about a hundred yards away.. Brian went down a ways to check, and when he got back, he said there was no one there. Still, I could feel something out there, so I would look out the door from time to time. Nothing was happening on that floor so we went around to the back and down some stairs to an area where prisoners were held underground, there was a grate with a lock on it in the floor that led straight down for about eight feet. .Carol Ann laid down on her stomach and looked in. In all the time we were at the castle my K2 meter did not go up even a single light, we were in the middle of nowhere with no electricity or outside influences that might make it go off , so were all got a major surprise when Carol Ann stuck her face against the grate and yelled “HELLO”.. the K2 meter instantly lit up with all five lights flashing for about 10 seconds, as if she had scared something to flee from underground.. See, I told you she was fearless! After that, I had to give her a nickname, Carol Ann doesn’t sound like a tough ghost hunting name, so I started calling her the Castle Raider..
Leaving that area, we headed again to the top floor, and once again I felt a presence about a hundred yards away in the tall grass, the same place as before, we stopped and looked, and all of a sudden I see what looks like the light from one of those old fashioned lanterns that they used back in older times. We watched it, Boris and the Castle Raider finally saw it. We were trying to figure out exactly where it was, the houses were that direction but much farther to the right across the road. While we were looking, the light started moving further into the tall grass, we watched it for maybe 10 seconds as it moved, then it went out. Hard to imagine why anyone would be out there at roughly two in the morning, walk into field and then turn off their light, or even why I had felt them over there all night.. very interesting.. we called it a night and they took me back to the Chapel Cross Guesthouse.. we made plans to go to Greyfriars and the South Bridge Vaults.
I got picked up the next day by Brian, Carol Ann, and their friend Alex Power, and we hit Edinburgh.
Edinburgh at night is a great place to walk around; the Edinburgh Castle all lit up in the background, the entire city lights up all those historic buildings, hills and streets. You can let your imagination take you back in time, the history seems to wash over you in waves. I love the feeling you get here.
We first went to Greyfriars, a very famous cemetery surrounded by old time buildings and monuments. Brian told us there were thousands of people buried there, one of the most occupied cemeteries anywhere, but it is not like you think.. most of the graves are behind a gate, so you can’t really see them, but it is a really interesting place. Brian and Alex were walking ahead of me and Carol Ann, it was fall, so there were lots of leaves on the ground, when we heard very distinct footsteps to our right, about twenty feet away, it went on for several seconds then stopped, but definitely something was up, as we both turned to look to see who was there. Nobody, nothing, the leaves weren’t even moving. Nice start for the night!
Brian took us over to the City of Edinburgh Tours, where Josh took us first back to Greyfriars, it was cool to be on the tour, Josh was an excellent guide and we learned even more, then it was on to the South Bridge Vaults, where William led us on a tour of the underground vaults, and told us of a lady in white who appears at the end of the hallway on occasion, and dolls that move in another section. One word of caution: if you are tall, pay attention as you go through doorways, the people were a lot shorter back when they built the vaults, I found that out by bashing my head in the dark.. I should have listened to William, he warned us earlier!
The tour group filtered out, and a woman named Kelly came in and told us we had the place to ourselves, she was very nice, and told us some of the things that some of the people on tours had experienced, particularly the lady in white. (Why do they always wear white?)
I couldn’t believe that we were getting this place to ourselves, and we started right in. The place where the lady in white was repeatedly seen was at the end of the hallway, and there were a few steps to go up, and ended about three feet high. I asked them to turn out the lights and went up the stairs, crawled under the overhang and sat down cross legged on the floor, and the Castle Raider used my night vision camera to film it. I had a K2 meter and voice recorder, but was getting no results. After about fifteen minutes I looked out and Carol Ann ( Castle Raider) was looking directly at me, still filming, when I noticed she was talking to someone. I crawled from under the small room, and asked her who she was talking to. She said she had been talking to Brian, and she seemed shocked when I told her that while she was talking there was no one else in the tunnel, actually no one but me anywhere near her. She said she was positive someone was there, when right then Brian walked up from the other part of the vault. She asked if he had been standing right next to her and he said no, he was in the other room, he and Alex had been trying to see if they could get the dolls to move, but no luck. Carol Ann was absolutely positive someone had been standing next to her, but I told her I saw her the whole time she was filming, and she was always alone. Pretty cool! This place is getting some energy flowing!
We did some still photos next, they set up a laser grid in the tunnel, and I used my phone to snap some pictures, and I aimed my camera at the spot where they would see the lady in white. I snapped two pictures in a row, you can see them below.. The red dots are the laser grid. In the first picture the tunnel is clear, in the second picture there is something person sized in white at the end of the tunnel, right where people see the lady.. Is it her? Or is it an anomaly of the camera? I’ll let you make up your own mind.
We started to wind down the hunt, when Brian suggested one more room, we searched it, and Carol Ann, Alex and I walked out and sat on a bench.. We could hear Brian talking in the other room. When he stepped out he saw me and looked startled. He said “how long have you been out here”? We told him we had all been there several minutes. Brian seemed perplexed, saying he had been talking to me in the other room, he thought I was standing next to him. Sound a little familiar; it is exactly the same thing that had happened to Carol Ann. Now these are no newbies when it comes to ghost hunting, so I think it has a good deal of credibility, they are not the types to make things up or mistake someone standing next to them. I wonder if other people that have gone there have had the same experience.
The following day Boris and the Castle Raider stopped by the Guesthouse to chat, and I told them of all the things I’d seen around Rosslyn Chapel, but the one thing I missed but really wanted to see was the cave where William Wallace of Braveheart fame would hide while the British were hunting for him. I’d tried to find it, no luck, and one of the guides at the Chapel said there was a landslide, a lady broke her leg and you couldn’t get there right now. Boris immediately said “come on, I’ll show it to you”.
We jumped in his car and drove to a farm type place and got out. I said is it OK to be on this property? He said you needed permission, and he had it, so the three of us went about a quarter of a mile when we came to a steep downslope which turned into about a fifty foot drop. We proceed slowly and very carefully. As we reached a granite slab we stopped and looked at the view, which was fantastic. I realized I was on the other side of the creek from Rosslyn Chapel and never would have been able to find this place on my own. I looked to Boris and said “I don’t see a cave”, he chuckled and said “you’re standing on it”.
Boris led me and the Castle Raider down and around the granite to a steep down slope again, only this one went right to the edge of the drop off, and the fall would definitely put a severe hurting on you, at least. There was a path about two feet wide that went from the rock face on one side, and the drop on the other, so we moved very carefully for about thirty feet and there it was, the entrance to the cave. We went in, it was bigger than I thought it would be, and I can see why no one ever found him, it was almost impossible to find, very easily defended, all he had to do was poke anyone who tried to come with his sword and they would fall over the drop off. We checked it out for a while then made our way back to the Guesthouse.
Sadly, it was time for me to return to Hollywood, but I have already set up another hunt with them for this June. Can’t wait!
Premier Paranormal Tours is well worth your time to check out, they are good people, and they really know the hot spots of ghost hunting around Edinburgh, including the hard to find, and the even harder to get into, they have connections to a lot of really interesting places. The group consists of Brian Harley ( Boris), Carol Ann Hosburgh ( the Castle Raider),Garry Fields, who is also a medium, Karynn Hughes, Gary Hugill, and Joanne Benaicha…
Brian began ghost hunting in 1975 at Bolling Hall in Bradford Yorkshire, where he is from, originally, and was very possibly the first person to investigate there, as ghost hunting was not common at that time. Boris’ mentor was the well-known author and paranormal researcher Andrew M Green, who joined him often on hunts.
In 1976 he spent the summer investigating Bolton Priory in North Yorkshire, and he is returning there, 40 years later with his team to film an episode for their new series Raw Paranormal
Boris, Karynn Hughes, Garry Fields
Boris and The Castle Raider
You can contact them at 07821154787 , might need to remove the 0 and add a +44 if outside of UK
You can also e-mail them at firstname.lastname@example.org
Tom Danheiser is the Senior Producer
of the National Radio Show Coast To Coast AM
I had a chance to sit down with one of the brightest rising Ufologists in the field of Ufology today. If you are serious about the subjects of Ufology, Disclosure and all things UFO, then Chase is SOMEONE YOU SHOULD KNOW.
Chase Kloetzke is a UFO Investigator as well as radio talk show host. She is a Mufon special assignment team leader and is the Assistant National Director of Mufon in Mexico. Chase is also a member of Mufon’s International Star Team, reporting to 14 other countries and helping investigators overseas.
Tom. There is so much for me to talk with you about. Let me start by asking how long you have been a Ufologist and what got you started.
Chase: My interest in Ufology started as a teen. I read Erich Von Daniken’s book ‘Chariots of the God’s’ in 1994. I then entered the field of Ufology, became a Ufologist, and have been investigating mysteries ever since.
Tom: Tell me about your first UFO investigation, how excited you were, and what went on at the site.
Chase: My first investigation was assigned to me by Mufon in 1996 and I couldn’t help but get excited when the phone rang. I dove right in and worked the claims. What I mean by that is I always approach things like an engineer and work the problems. I am always looking for admissibility and to meet the burden of proof; it’s very difficult when you are looking for things that are not supposed to exist.
Tom: Tell me about the one case in your career that you absolutely had a blast working on and investigating?
Chase: My most favorite case was in Tennessee. One night there was a terrible thunderstorm and this woman was convinced that a grey entity was looking at her through her window. The next day she had found a very strange substance outside her window and was convinced it was extraterrestrial in nature. I got the call to join the state investigator at the site. My job was to gather the evidence and examine the substance she had found. The woman was an eccentric older lady, with Elvis memorabilia all around her home. I remember having such a good time chatting with her about how much she loved him. I collected the sappy-crust like substance, and it was weird. I could not find a sample anywhere else on her property except under the window. I sent it to the lab to be forensically processed and tested by a chemist, and it turned out to be a substance found in miraclegro. The lady insisted I talk to her girlfriend Shirley who was also convinced the substance was extraterrestrial. I then explained my entire process of investigation and the lab results from the chemist to her friend Shirley…………… by the way, her friend turned out to be none other than Shirley MacLaine.
Tom: Now of course I have to ask you what the one case was or is that you would love to have investigated but never got a chance to do so for one reason or another.
Chase: Absolutely Rendlesham. Ya know Tom, I say that because I have the memory of the first time I heard the accounts from the witnesses, and Colonel Halt who said he saw this light coming down, or this stuff coming from this object that looks very much like molten metal. I never forgot that because as an investigator I have always been drawn to, and seem to identify with what he said since my forte is physical evidence. I know what the investigative procedure should have been, but over the years I’ve never heard anybody talk about going back to see what that substance was or what fell from that object. Why didn’t somebody do that? After asking that question over and over in my career, I’ve always gotten the answer that nobody knows if anyone ever has. That would be the case I wish I could have investigated, only because in my view it was such a missed opportunity.
Tom: So we’ve talked about a couple cases now, please walk me through exactly what happens on an investigation and what your process is to determine whether an alleged UFO sighting or abduction may be real or not.
Chase: The first thing I would do is contact the witness. That is the most important thing to do in order to document the witness statement properly. If we find a piece of metal, it’s just a piece of metal until the witness gives you an event around it. Then, depending on what they’re telling me, I need to figure out what direction to go in with my investigation. Sometimes I would deal with the physical evidence, other times I would probably just canvas the area. We work the case, work the leads, and always look for ways to go back and find proof. If there’s a witness, we work off what they tell us. Sometimes it leads us to a brick wall and that’s okay because you can rule things out and not waste time.
Tom: What is your next step when you find physical evidence at a sight and what do you do with it?
Chase: I collect it; in fact I collect every possible thing I can. I collect more than I need and as much as I can. I have spent a lot of time honing my evidence collection skills and my forensic skills. I realized a long time ago that the forensic and scientific part of every investigation is going to be just an important as the witness testimony. Each type of substance and material is different and collected differently. There are processes that the labs require before they will even look at it.
Tom: Do you believe extraterrestrials are friendly, and if they are, do they have any intention of working with mankind to make the planets a better place to live, both theirs and ours?
Chase: There’s a line in the sand. We have a community that believes that the extraterrestrials have our best interest in mind, and then we have just as many on the other side that say they don’t. There’s no empirical evidence on one side or the other yet for us to make a call, and as an investigator, I don’t have the luxury to have an opinion about that. When we speak about certainties, and you have the responsibility and title of an investigator, you are held to a higher standard and there’s not enough conclusive evidence on either side to say exactly what their agenda is…………….. good or bad.
Tom: I know that we both knew an amazing man and Ufologist by the name of Dr. Roger Leir. The work he did was incredible and the whole UFO community misses him immensely. You did some work with Dr. Leir and I’m wondering if you could tell me a little bit about your relationship with him and give me your thoughts on a man that I consider one of the top Ufologists of all time.
Chase: I really miss him because he was very conscientious and did such great work with his alien implant removal surgeries. Roger had such a wealth of information and foundation of knowledge, and that is what you really need to make a difference. For him to do the research that he did, come so close to satisfying that burden of proof each time, and to have this device that you open up that science will fully admit they can’t explain, is amazing. I love the work that he did because these were anomalous devices that were completely taken out of people and looked at through science, although still unexplained.
Tom: I had the unique opportunity of actually going to one of Dr. Leir’s implant removal surgeries; I am wondering if you ever got to attend one?
Chase: I did and it was incredible. I watched through a video monitor and it was an amazing experience. Now since the witness was one of mine, I had the job, once the implant was removed, of getting it to the lab, processing it, and maintaining the chain of custody. To this day, we have not gone public with the case since the witness requested it to remain private.
Tom: Now that Dr. Leir has passed away, is there anybody else that will continue to do these types of surgeries?
Chase: Not at the moment; I am not aware of any.
Tom: Chase I have to ask you; do you blame those who have had a UFO sighting or have maybe been abducted for not coming out with the experience for fear of being labeled a quack or unstable?
Chase: I don’t blame them at all. At times, the UFO Community has not treated witnesses well at all. We will ask them to please come forward and talk about their experiences because it’s very important for our research and for the world to know. It’s also important for other people who are experiencing the same type of phenomena to hear what they went through. The problem is that a lot of times we would need to end our cases because we weren’t prepared to help the witness through the criticisms and the ridicule. Take a look at the famous case of Travis Walton; he has never even reported being abducted. Travis took a lie detector test and jumped through hoops, and yet there are still people that say they don’t believe him. I’m very protective of my witnesses, and encourage them to come forward, but only if they are comfortable doing so.
Tom: Chase, do you believe that we as a people and as a population are ready to learn the truth about alien life?
Chase: I do, I really do. I think there’s been an acceptance and I think that humanity is not only ready but we need it. We need to know the truth about extraterrestrials. I think knowing will make us better human beings.
Tom: It seems like the general thought when it comes to the government and Ufology is that there is a massive cover up. What are your thoughts on our government and what they are hiding from us?
Chase: I believe they are hiding evidence that UFOs are absolutely real and they have visited our Earth. I don’t believe it’s the whole government, rather the cover-up comes from a shadow government within the government that control so much. They don’t really care about the world stage; they care more about the impact of advanced knowledge.
Tom: Many people do not understand why, so I want to ask you this question; why is it the government does not want us to know that we have been visited if we indeed have?
Chase: Because they lose power, the elite would lose power. Knowledge is power; this has nothing to do with money, it’s about the knowledge that is the power. They are secret keepers Tom, they hold so many keys we can’t touch them. For instance, they don’t tell the president of the United States because he is on a need-to-know basis. It won’t help him make better decisions about the United States so why let him know?
Tom: So Chase would you say that disclosure is at the hands of the Illuminati, or the shadow government, or whatever you choose to call them?
Chase: I like to use the words shadow government because those are the secret keepers and the ones that are really in control. There is a school of thought that has been developing that the Extra Terrestrials are actually the ones that control the information; the ones that are in charge of the secrecy and have told our government to keep the truth from us. It’s something we have to consider. I do believe Tom, as an investigator in this field, I am seeing more and more information come out, and seeing just a hint of the government not being so concerned with investigators such as myself when it comes to the flow of information.
Tom: I am curious as to why the aliens, the extraterrestrials themselves would not want to reveal themselves to us. They obviously have a clue that we know they are out there. So why?
Chase: What if they are here for natural resources? Would that make us resist and get in their way? What if this is indeed a breeding program like we suspect and hear from the abductees all the time? There are a lot of reasons they would not want us to know they are here. When I think about it, I think it’s about the control over humanity.
Tom: But why would they want to control us if they are friendly?
Chase: Well, it’s very apparent they are controlling us. Even the abductees will tell you they didn’t want to go with them but yet they find themselves going. The ETs will be very pleasant yet tell us nothing. Where’s our information? It is absolutely controlling!
Tom: In one of our conversations you had mentioned the word “ghosts”. I am wondering if you think there is a relationship between Extra Terrestrials and ghosts?
Chase: We believe that there is a relationship but it may not be one that is directly connected; we do believe there is a relationship between maybe dimensions or portals or the type of physics that allow people to see apparitions.
Tom: Chase, how many specific species of ETs do you think there are?
Chase: That is a very interesting question and I have no idea. There’s an alleged government document that says there are over 80, and then we have other researchers who have come out and said that they’ve trapped 60. The truth is we don’t know. We have no idea how many there are and how many have visited us.
Tom: And if you were abducted, give me the first question you would ask the Extra Terrestrials.
Chase: What’s your agenda? Why? Why your interest with humanity? What they need actually because they definitely want something or they would make their presence known.
Tom: Chase, do you think disclosure will happen in our life time? What do you think?
Chase: I do but that may be hopeful. The phenomenon is not going away. We are getting better and the evidence is piling up; people have no idea how far we have come, we just have further to go.
Tom: In my professional life, I have worked with this subject matter more than once and I find that the one thing that most people I talk to believe is that the ETs do walk among us. What do you think about that?
I think it’s most likely very possible but I am determined to stay neutral. I believe this is most likely true but I keep a DNA kit in my purse at all times and until I have that scientific certainty I can’t say yes for sure.
Tom: What do you want people to know when it comes to alien research and the search for ET? What do you want to teach them?
Chase: The first thing I’d want them to know is that UFO investigators aren’t trying to prove that UFOs exist. We are looking for the truth behind reports from credible people that see things that are not supposed to exist. We’re looking for why certain events happen and the truth behind them. A lot of people think that UFO investigators are just looking to prove that the person saw a UFO…not true. To the second part of your question, I would like to teach people how to properly document witness testimony. I would like to teach people how to think like an investigator.
Tom: If someone wanted to start out to become a Ufologist, and start to do investigations, where can they go and what should they do? What words of wisdom would you have for them?
Chase: I would tell them to find people that have a good resume. There are plenty of groups that will help you from the beginning. MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) I believe is the perfect step for anybody brand new. You join the organization and they have a field manual, there’s training, and they are set up so you can’t fail. If you’re not really experienced in abductees, you have people you can call that would be considered our best resources for experience. I think MUFON and some of the other groups (I like MUFON) are great for this. They have a team of conscientious people that can teach you the rules such as how investigators work with each other, what’s considered a big no no, and how to not hijack someone else’s case. There are rules that are considered ethical and if you can’t play nice, no one is going to call you.
Tom: Do you think Ufology is slowing down or is it still relevant with the times?
Chase: It hasn’t slowed down at all. The cases are coming in more and more. The ridicule factor is dwindling a bit. The internet, social media, and TV is helping to educate the public. We think people are more comfortable now with calling an investigator then they were say 20 years ago.
Tom: I understand that you are also a paranormal investigator; tell me a little about that.
Chase: I am. I’ve done many paranormal investigations. I’ve been in the swamps of Louisiana chasing the honey island swamp monster, I’ve been deep in the caves and coal mines of Kentucky looking for the Indava. I’ve looked for Bigfoot! I love the mystery and I will go look. I love paranormal investigations.
When you are long gone, what would you like people to remember about you in the way of your work?
Chase: That everything I did was about the truth of the event and that I didn’t deceive anyone or give them false hope. I really hope that I am remembered for integrity and honesty.
Tom: And what would you like written on your tombstone?
Chase: O my gosh! “She was loved”. I think like anyone else it all comes down to family and friends.
Tom: Chase, it’s been fascinating talking with you. Thank you for spending time with me today, and I would like you to give me your final thoughts.
Chase: There are so many reasons to talk to an investigator and I want people to know that there is no reason anymore not to contact an investigator if you have been abducted, seen an ET, or just think that you might have seen something that needs investigating. There are plenty of good ones around to talk to.
Tom: And there you have it. I love learning new things about people and sharing with others. Chase Kloetzke is a top notch investigator and SOMEONE YOU SHOULD KNOW!
Since the printing of this article, Chase has accepted an extraordinary challenge to re-open the investigation into the famous Star Child Skull. This skull is well known from the previous work of Lloyd Pye, but there are new developments and still direct indicators that have yet to be examined. Chase will start from the beginning as she re-tests the DNA and physical anomalies identified presently with the skull as she has recognized a series of new leads that must be examined. You can find information on this investigation and more @ www.chasekloetzke.com
The Whaley House in San Diego is one of the most famous haunted locations in all of America, and I was really excited to be invited to ghost hunt there, it has been high on my “I got to go there” list for a long time.
Kane and RA were out of town so I grabbed my buddy Louis Horowitz, he’s our location guy, and drove the two hours to get there. We were to meet two of the San Diego Ghost Hunters there, they had invited us, and we arrived about an hour early.
This section of San Diego was not what I expected. When you are going to a haunted location you expect it to be run down, scary looking, but it wasn’t that at all. There were clubs, restaurants everywhere; it was a very festive area, a really cool place to visit, so we grabbed something to eat next to the Whaley House.
It was time to meet the ladies from the San Diego Ghost Hunters, Maritza Skandunas and Colleen Rose, so Louis and I headed over to meet them, and they introduced us to another woman who was waiting at the front door, her name is Jokie Tolentino, and she is the Director of Museum Services, and she was kind enough to join us( actually, we wouldn’t have been there at all without her blessing), and she told us the history of the building, each room, absolutely a beautiful place, the rooms and history are so interesting I almost forgot about ghost hunting.. almost.
As we went through the building, they told us of a man named Yankee Jim, here is the back story..
The earliest documented ghost at the Whaley House is “Yankee Jim.” James (aka Santiago) Robinson was convicted of attempted grand larceny in San Diego in 1852, and hanged on a gallows off the back of a wagon on the site where the house now stands. The local newspaper reported that he “kept his feet in the wagon as long as possible, but was finally pulled off. He swung back and forth like a pendulum until he strangled to death.” Although Thomas Whaley had been a spectator at the execution, he did not let it dissuade him from buying the property a few years later and building a home for his family there. According to the San Diego Union, “soon after the couple and their children moved in, heavy footsteps were heard moving about the house. Whaley described them as sounding as though they were made by the boots of a large man. Finally he came to the conclusion that these unexplained footfalls were made by Yankee Jim Robinson.” Another source states that Lillian Whaley, the Whaley’s’ youngest daughter who lived in the house until 1953, “had been convinced the ghost of “Yankee Jim” haunted the Old House.” A visitor to the museum in 1962 mentioned that “the ghost had driven her family from their visit there more than 60 years [earlier], her mother was unnerved by the phantom walking noise and the strange way the windows unlatched and flew up.”
The story fresh in our minds we unpacked our gear and started investigating, I had my night vision camera and K2 meter so we could do an EVP session. Louis had brought a piece of equipment called the Spirit Touch, which has a tiny blue light that will come on if energy comes very close to the light, you have to be within inches to make it light up. Maritza, Colleen and Louis were setting it up on a display case, Louis showed them how it worked, and as I was walking down the stairs Maritza said “make it light up Yankee Jim”, and it went off immediately! Pretty interesting that it worked that soon, I was skeptical thinking it may work the way the flashlight trick works. I walked over to it, they asked Yankee Jim to light it up again, and it went off again! I feel the need to take this home and test it myself, and I did.
As part of testing it, I turned it on while I watched TV for several hours, not once did it go off, so I knew it didn’t have a timer, so I tried to see if I could make it light up by jostling the table. Again, no response. I walked around the house, stood near a power box, still nothing. I called the manufacturer who said they don’t make them anymore, but I told him how impressed I was with it, he agreed to make me three, and I should have them soon, and I want to take all of them to the Whaley House to check them out.
We all toured the building, the rooms are fantastic, it was like being taken back in time, a real piece of history you could experience firsthand. We saw a courtroom( I bet Yankee Jim didn’t like that room), we saw a stage, every room told a story, the detail to attention to the time period makes this a very unique place. Oh, and did I mention that it is haunted? We would hear things move in other rooms, you would get that feeling of energy surrounding you like someone is right next to you, but one of the best parts of the night was when Colleen and Louis were on the lower floor. Colleen and Maritza are there a lot and seem to have a good grasp on the spirits there; including a woman they call Dangerous. They were doing an EVP session when Colleen started asking Dangerous questions, and when she said “what’s your real name, Dangerous”? A very clear voice, definitely a Class A response said “sorry”.
We went into the famous courtroom area, I stood up where the Judge would be, but no responses, but when we took pictures, they had an orange tint around us in several, but not in others.
Maritza, Rick, Jokie and Colleen
As the investigation was winding down we headed upstairs for one last look, where a very funny thing happened. The Whaley House is a very well-known haunted location, and people come to look at it often, even late into the evening. I was standing near a window that looked to the back of the building; the window had a light drape covering it. I saw movement on the ground below through it, so I very slowly, now remember it is dark where we are, opened the curtain and moved into the window. There were two guys and a girl looking up with shocked faces, so I stood still, you could tell they saw me, but couldn’t see but a shadow. I waited about ten seconds so I could get their blood running, then I waved, and all three started laughing. I debunked myself, but they had a good scare, so it was worth it!
Louis and I had a long ride back to Los Angeles, so we packed our gear, thanked Jokie, Maritza and Colleen, and prepared to leave, but those three were such fun it took us awhile to finally head out.
I had been wanting to ghost hunt there for so long, and to be able to do it with such a tiny group was quite an honor, and the drive there and back was definitely worth it. We had a great time, good people, and a great location. We couldn’t have asked for more. Thanks for the invite and the hospitality!
The Whaley House is an 1857 Greek Revival style residence, a California Historical Landmark, and museum located in Old Town, San Diego, California. It is currently maintained by Save Our Heritage Organization. For information on the museum, tours, and ghost tours please go to: http://www.whaleyhouse.org/
In the last issue I wrote a Paranormal Tidbit that spoke of a car crash in Utah, I will rerun it here as an introduction to Tyler.
A woman and her 18 month old daughter were in an automobile accident in Utah, where the car landed upside down in a river. It was fourteen hours before the police found the car. As they climbed down the embankment to get to the car, they could hear a woman’s voice calling out, saying “help us”
Hearing the voice they frantically pried at the doors, and could still hear the voice calling for help. They were finally able to get inside, and found the baby upside down in her car seat, unconscious… One of the officers grabbed the baby and ran to the ambulance with her, she was barely alive. The car had been in the freezing water for fourteen hours, only a pocket of air kept the baby from the water.
Seven of the men who helped in her rescue were treated for hypothermia, yet the baby was still alive.
The officers all recounted hearing the woman’s voice calling for help, and how that spurred on their heroic efforts. What is the paranormal part of this story? The mother had been killed instantly in the accident, fourteen hours earlier.
UPDATE: I called the Spanish Forks Police Department, the people who responded to the accident, and spoke with Lieutenant Matt Johnson, who told me the Officers were no longer doing interviews, as they had been swamped with requests, which is definitely understandable. He was polite enough to chat with me, and I asked him if I could ask a few questions? He said yes, so I asked him if anything had changed since the accident, any new information, and did the Officers still believe they heard a woman’s voice?
His answers were no new information, and yes, the Officers still stand by their original reports. Thanks to the Lieutenant for his time and great demeanor.
I was reading through the last issue when I saw this, and heard Tyler on the George Noory show, Coast to Coast AM, and I knew I had to ask him some follow up questions.
Rick: I think the best question to start with is the obvious one. What happened when you responded to the car crash? And what position do you have?
Tyler: I am a patrol officer on the police force, it was a kind of your typical Saturday, it was kind of slow, there were four of us working, and we got called to the river to the upside down car that was in the river, and when we get there you can see a hand that was protruding out of the window of the car. But we didn’t know at the time if someone was still alive in the car, but as we get down there, there are just four of us there, four officers and as we get down into the water is when we heard the voice saying “help me, help me”. We thought someone was still alive in this car we have to do what we can, so were able to flip the car over onto its side, but that is when we found there was only one adult female in the car that had been dead for hours, she had died on impact and had been there for quite some time, she didn’t have any color and everything, but we found that little baby Lilly was in the back seat unconscious, but she was just an infant, but the words I heard was an adult female voice, and we all heard that, and there is no disputing from each of us saying “ I heard this or I heard that”, it was all kind of the same voice which is crazy.
Rick: The car was down there, upside down in the water for like thirteen hours before you guys got there?
Tyler: Yeah, fourteen hours was what the investigators determined with witness accounts and everything, so yeah, fourteen hours.
Rick: The coroner said the lady died pretty much on impact didn’t he?
Tyler: Yes he did, I haven’t said a lot because I don’t want to, because it’s kind of detailed in the book, she was so, so damaged from it, and it was hard to see.
Rick: I’ve been very interested in your story, because I’ve been interested in angels all my life, I have actually had things of an angelic nature happen to me, so I’ve always been fascinated by it. Where you a believer in angels before this happened?
Tyler: You know what’s funny, I grew up in the Mormon faith and I was pretty active and we believe in angels and angelic encounters all the time, but with police work, I’m thirty one years, I started at twenty one, it seems like I’ve had crazy experiences, I had a quadruple homicide, where a dad murdered his wife, mother in law and two children in the home that I helped investigate. Kind of rough, So I found myself starting to doubt God and doubting angelic things, so I was in such a down spot at that time that it really transformed me back to believing again, I kind of did a one eighty but, but prior to the river I was kind of in the dumps of not believing until we heard that voice, and the feelings I got was like wait a minute, why was I doubting this?
Rick: I can see where that would happen. I had an internship as a Detective of a Police Department, that was what my degree was in, and I tell you I give you all credit in the world, I could not do it. I went the first couple of days and the people I met, I said man, I don’t want to meet these kinds of people!
Tyler: (Laughing) It’s tough, and you know you have all the negativity with all the media over the last several years of anti-police this, or whatever it may be. Those are tough things.
Rick: This will be in the article, because I’ll tell you right now I’m not one of those kinds of people who bag on the police, I have the utmost respect for what you guys do.
Tyler: I appreciate it.
Rick: Let me ask you, the first time I read about this I had never seen any of the video of what happened and the other day I saw the video going up to the car, and I heard the voice for myself on the video.
Rick: Do other people hear it, I have a feeling a lot of other people don’t hear it.
Tyler: A lot of people don’t, and I tell them it is part of the video, I’ve had a lot of messages and things lately since we did Fox and Friends it’s kind of spread out there that a lot of people have said I slowed it down, I listened to it over and over, and I can hear something on there. I thought a lot of people are going to start saying you’re crazy, you’re hearing voices, but with all four of us that heard it, there really hasn’t been a lot of doubt, people have been pretty positive with OK, I understand this.
Rick: I think that all four of you are policemen adds a lot of validity to what you’re saying. I mean who are you going to believe if you don’t believe the guys you call to come save you?
Let me ask you, have you seen the little girl since that has happened?
Tyler: I have, she is doing fantastic, no side effects, no anything. I talked to the doctor who helped work on her and he said as many hours that on her, and not having any brain injury or side effects that there is really no scientific or medical way to describe it other than a miracle, she’s phenomenal.
Rick: That is really cool. I understand you wrote a book about the occurrence.
Tyler: I did, I was so down in my faith and this really transformed me. I started getting e-mails and calls from all around the world, from China to Mexico to Canada, here, everywhere and saying like, hey, this changed my life I was kind of in adown spot, and this gave me a little hope.
I thought I really hadn’t talked too much about it other than saying we heard this voice helped us, so for me I wanted to put not only this into words, but also how my faith was so in the dumps prior to this and how it’s changed since then, so I wrote a book with New York Times best seller Ptolemy Tompkins and we wrote Proof of Angels.
Rick: I am very much into the whole realm of angels. I don’t tell very many people this, but I had my life saved by what I can only believe was angelic intercession.
Rick: I was under my 240ZX, a very low slung sports car, trying to get the oil pan bolt off, when I heard a voice in my head say “ let it go” There was no one else in the house it was about 11 at night, so I ignored it and went to really put a good pull on the wrench to get the bolt loose when I heard “ let it go” again, this time much more stern. I didn’t pull on the wrench, and slid out from under the car, and just as my head cleared from under the car, the car fell off the jack and crashed to the floor. It came so close to my head that I actually felt the car go through the hair on the top of my head. Absolutely no doubt in my mind something saved my life that night. So I definitely understand what you say in the book about how it can change your perspective on things.
Tyler: Yeah, absolutely, it really did.
Rick: Did this affect the other three guys?
Tyler: It did, we talked a little bit about it but I think it was funny, because we have a lot of religious guys on the force, but the four that were working, the four that were there that day I would say were all pretty similar in religious, we were all starting to doubt, which is funny because of all the people working it was the four of us that probably needed that more than anybody, and that’s who heard that.
Rick: Maybe you guys were sent there because you guys needed something too.
Tyler: That’s what I’ve told people in interviews, yeah, we were the ones who rescued Baby Lily, but the voice really rescued us that day, which was pretty remarkable.
Rick: Fantastic! Thanks for the interview.
Tyler: My pleasure.
Tyler and Baby Lily